[ATTW-L] ATTW-L Digest, Vol 28, Issue 33
Sparby, Erika
emsparb at ilstu.edu
Fri Jul 10 02:14:32 UTC 2020
I'm willing to be less respectful than Temptaous. This is a bad take, Elizabeth. It's disappointing.
Thank you to Temptaous, Natasha, Cana, Angela, and others who have spoken up on this listserv. I appreciate your leadership, voices, and tireless efforts to stand up for international and BIPOC students.
Cheers,
Erika
--
Erika M. Sparby, PhD | she/her/hers
Assistant Professor of Digital Rhetoric and Technical Communication
Department of English
Illinois State University
On 7/9/20, 8:55 PM, "ATTW-L on behalf of attw-l-request at attw.org" <attw-l-bounces at attw.org on behalf of attw-l-request at attw.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: the ICE memo on international students (Temptaous Mckoy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 21:54:06 -0400
From: Temptaous Mckoy <temptaous56 at gmail.com>
To: "Tebeaux, Elizabeth D" <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>, "attw-l at attw.org"
<attw-l at attw.org>
Subject: Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students
Message-ID:
<CAA7DQ54O=Xb5-UBPbOrL0h-jN6mhrm5d5dV33_wKqFpX2qR8Nw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Elizabeth
Respectfully so, this response is dangerous and problematic. This is not a
conversation on student responsibility. And I?m saddened that you are
making this conversation to be so. Furthermore, these leaves me concerned
about your interactions with students of color in general.
On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 9:13 PM Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>
wrote:
> I don?t think we are responsive for the welfare and learning
> outcomes of any students. We can do our job as teachers,
> but students also have to take responsibility for their
> Learning and welfare.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 9, 2020, at 6:12 PM, Temptaous Mckoy <temptaous56 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Everyone!!
> Cagle and Cana, thank you for speaking up here. I would like to mention, I
> was a bit thrown off to see a colleague suggest they are not responsible
> for the overall well being and educational outcomes for international
> students. Elizabeth, would you mind speaking more to what you mean here? I
> do not want to misunderstand your ideas.
>
> Temptaous
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Cana Itchuaqiyaq <croscana at isu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> This conversation is teetering on the edge of being on the level of some
>> of the racist and xenophobic threads on the wpa-l.
>>
>> As Dr. Dragga notes, this memo is a great case study of technical
>> communication?s effect on populations.
>>
>> Please do not make the professional spaces in our field unsafe for
>> international scholars.
>>
>> In solidarity,
>> Cana Uluak Itchuaqiyaq
>> Tribal member, Noorvik Native Community
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 3:30 PM Cagle, Lauren E. <lauren.cagle at uky.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Joseph, I just want to be clear I understand you. Are you suggesting
>>> that international students are gaming immigration status to the detriment
>>> of US workers, and therefore the current ICE rule is acceptable?
>>>
>>> Cagle
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Lauren E. Cagle, PhD
>>>
>>>
>>> Assistant Professor | Writing, Rhetoric, & Digital Studies, University
>>> of Kentucky
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wrd.as.uky.edu/__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KExBvI9Csg$>
>>>
>>> Program Faculty | Environmental and Sustainability Studies, University
>>> of Kentucky
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ens.as.uky.edu/about-faculty__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEyH3LniJQ$>
>>>
>>> First Vice-President | Association for Rhetoric of Science, Technology,
>>> and Medicine
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.arstmonline.org/__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEzjBZiXDA$>
>>>
>>> Director & Co-Founder | Kentucky Climate Consortium
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.research.uky.edu/climate-consortium__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEzR1LVoow$>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pronouns: she/her/hers
>>>
>>> University of Kentucky
>>>
>>> 1351 Patterson Office Tower
>>>
>>> lauren.cagle at uky.edu
>>>
>>> (859) 257-1115
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* ATTW-L <attw-l-bounces at attw.org> on behalf of Joseph Jeyaraj <
>>> jeyarajjoseph at yahoo.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:51 PM
>>> *To:* Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>; attw-l at attw.org <
>>> attw-l at attw.org>; Kain, Donna <KAIND at ecu.edu>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students
>>>
>>> CAUTION: External Sender
>>>
>>> International students currently use the OPT as a transitional period to
>>> get hired legally and then, while on an OPT, apply for the H-1B to change
>>> immigrations status, I believe.
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>> On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 03:46:51 PM EDT, Kain, Donna <kaind at ecu.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Respectfully, if we have responsibility for any of our students'
>>> educational outcomes, then we have responsibility for all our students'
>>> educational outcomes. (Our accrediting agency seems to think we are
>>> responsible.) As far as relying on international students to stay afloat,
>>> that's above my pay grade. I'm concerned about the students who are here,
>>> not why they're here.
>>>
>>> Harvard and MIT are suing:
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/07/08/harvard-mit-international-students-ice/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.washingtonpost.com*2Feducation*2F2020*2F07*2F08*2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice*2F&data=02*7C01*7Clauren.cagle*40uky.edu*7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69*7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae*7C0*7C1*7C637299211821234773&sdata=W4U0DJOI685ysLH9Asv9z3YVVp0PsA3wsPjRQ03qsHI*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEzT0M_6mQ$>
>>>
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.washingtonpost.com*2Feducation*2F2020*2F07*2F08*2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice*2F&data=02*7C01*7Clauren.cagle*40uky.edu*7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69*7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae*7C0*7C1*7C637299211821244765&sdata=GgIYDSCS5lL1fS5OZS5OaP*2F6j0xtHGOGQIKndS*2FuFu8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEz_7vJ2Ig$>
>>> Harvard, MIT sue to protect international students - The Washington Post
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.washingtonpost.com*2Feducation*2F2020*2F07*2F08*2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice*2F&data=02*7C01*7Clauren.cagle*40uky.edu*7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69*7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae*7C0*7C1*7C637299211821244765&sdata=GgIYDSCS5lL1fS5OZS5OaP*2F6j0xtHGOGQIKndS*2FuFu8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEz_7vJ2Ig$>
>>> Harvard, pictured here, joined MIT in suing the Trump administration
>>> over a rule barring international students from coming to the United States
>>> to attend colleges offering only online classes.
>>> www.washingtonpost.com
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.washingtonpost.com__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEwfQP-wjQ$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Donna Kain, Ph.D.
>>> Associate Professor
>>> Director of Undergraduate Studies
>>> Department of English, East Carolina University
>>> 252-737-2705
>>> 2202 Bate Building
>>> Mail Stop 555
>>> kaind at ecu.edu
>>> *Go English!*
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 8, 2020 2:24 PM
>>> *To:* Kain, Donna <KAIND at ecu.edu>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students
>>>
>>> This email originated from outside ECU.
>>> No we are not. They have to achieve on their own. Accrediting agencies
>>> require DE support services. We have resident support services, but we are
>>> not responsible for their welfare and educational outcomes.
>>>
>>> I believe that universities have relied too long in intl students. With
>>> the coming student shortage, Colleges will have to cope or close.
>>> Providing DE programs for US working adults?graduate and certificate?is
>>> the way to go. That?s a deep market.
>>>
>>> Elizabeth Tebeaux
>>> ATTW Fellow/
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 8, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Kain, Donna <KAIND at ecu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Those are possible explanations. However, as long as we invite students
>>> to this country to study, we have a responsibility for their overall
>>> welfare and educational outcomes.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Donna Kain, Ph.D.
>>> Associate Professor
>>> Director of Undergraduate Studies
>>> Department of English, East Carolina University
>>> 252-737-2705
>>> 2202 Bate Building
>>> Mail Stop 555
>>> kaind at ecu.edu
>>> *Go English!*
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* ATTW-L <attw-l-bounces at attw.org> on behalf of Joseph Jeyaraj <
>>> jeyarajjoseph at yahoo.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 8, 2020 11:30 AM
>>> *To:* attw-l at attw.org <attw-l at attw.org>; Dragga, Sam <sam.dragga at ttu.edu
>>> >
>>> *Subject:* Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students
>>>
>>> This email originated from outside ECU.
>>>
>>> The ICE memo likely is in keeping with the administration's policy of
>>> protecting American jobs.
>>>
>>> The top two contributing countries for international students are India
>>> (from India the number currently, if I am right, may be close to 200,000)
>>> and China (possibly higher than India's) and it is the understanding that
>>> many of them post graduation move on to OPT and then H-1B.
>>>
>>> The H-1 B is meant to bring in overseas workers for filling in jobs that
>>> cannot be filled by US nationals, but American workers have argued that
>>> that is not the case.
>>>
>>> In addition, the Obama administration also allowed the H-4 (spousal
>>> visa) to be used as a work visa (possibly in 2015) and currently there may
>>> be around 127,000 or so who have entered the US job market as a result.
>>>
>>> The above is in addition to jobs outsourced. (If I am right, a few years
>>> ago IBM's biggest workforce of possibly 120,000 or so may have been India.)
>>>
>>> Because of Covid-19 and high unemployment levels, I think, the
>>> administration has put a stop on processing all work visas (H-1B and and
>>> other types as well I think, including the H-4).
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 02:54:08 PM EDT, Dragga, Sam <
>>> sam.dragga at ttu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are looking for a striking example of technical writing with a
>>> direct impact on your classrooms, consider the memo released yesterday by
>>> the US Department of Homeland Security (
>>> https://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/bcm2007-01.pdf
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ice.gov*2Fdoclib*2Fsevis*2Fpdf*2Fbcm2007-01.pdf*26data*3D02*7C01*7Ckaind*40ecu.edu*7C0cecdb5772614dbbe0f508d8235413af*7C17143cbb385c4c45a36ac65b72e3eae8*7C1*7C1*7C637298191313207642*26sdata*3DUtHXM*2ByatVpQYi49SLyny7XgDxwDaCwwOL2seZhVkyo*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!U0PxocZt15Jl_jQL1-9Nll6uHarSbF7rkM3O8COdfpbKEhPcrYVZ1zVlrrBJhdhlPw*24&data=02*7C01*7Clauren.cagle*40uky.edu*7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69*7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae*7C0*7C1*7C637299211821254757&sdata=arlvM4cmbiOmfZXegNcrdK6zm*2FWPVTOcRFTATtmmiQs*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEw0vu73tA$>
>>> ).
>>>
>>> The memo explains to college administrators that their international
>>> (nonimmigrant) students musttake either onsite courses or a mix of
>>> onsite and online courses in the Fall 2020 semester to remain in the United
>>> States.
>>>
>>> In addition to raising awareness of the extraordinary conditions for
>>> international students, the memo offers the opportunity to discuss clarity
>>> in writing (e.g., note the 33-word opening sentence in the 116-word opening
>>> paragraph but also the headings and numbered or bulleted lists).
>>>
>>> And given the experience of the Spring 2020 semester and the ongoing
>>> COVID-19 crisis, the memo raises ethical questions about putting the
>>> following key piece of information in a 63-word sentence in the middle of a
>>> 151-word paragraph on page 2 of a 3-page memo [italics mine]:
>>>
>>> *If a school changes its operational stance mid-semester, and as a
>>> result a nonimmigrant student switches to only online classes,* or a
>>> nonimmigrant student changes their course selections, and as a result, ends
>>> up taking an entirely online course load, schools are reminded that
>>> nonimmigrant students within the United States are not permitted to take a
>>> full course of study through online classes.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>> Sam Dragga
>>>
>>> Professor Emeritus, Texas Tech University
>>>
>>> Editor,*Technical Communication*
>>>
>>> sam.dragga at ttu.edu
>>>
>>> 1-806-543-6099
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ATTW-L mailing list
>>> ATTW-L at attw.org
>>> http://attw.org/mailman/listinfo/attw-l_attw.org
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttp*3A*2F*2Fattw.org*2Fmailman*2Flistinfo*2Fattw-l_attw.org*26data*3D02*7C01*7Ckaind*40ecu.edu*7C0cecdb5772614dbbe0f508d8235413af*7C17143cbb385c4c45a36ac65b72e3eae8*7C1*7C1*7C637298191313217635*26sdata*3DsyzgQVmMVI7piupMrELNa5s7Yb1NK5iYXi*2FtoOHOSEU*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KwNVnqRv!U0PxocZt15Jl_jQL1-9Nll6uHarSbF7rkM3O8COdfpbKEhPcrYVZ1zVlrrBGrqdclQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Clauren.cagle*40uky.edu*7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69*7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae*7C0*7C0*7C637299211821254757&sdata=Gn7gENHskeN5DQa01rtchIUgmXOW43UTMJHL1bWIeuY*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqJSUqKiUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KExGSFsAwA$>
>>>
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