[ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students

Fri Jul 10 15:44:15 UTC 2020

Good Morning Elizabeth,

Happy Friday to you and everyone else here. You believe you have never had
a problem with a student of color, yet your responses here have shown a
glimpse of your own implicit bias. In other words, you may have had
problems with students of color and they have never come to you to express
their thoughts or feelings to you. The absence of evidence is not always in
fact evidence of absence. I genuinely hope that you consider what some of
us are trying to bring to your attention here. I try my best to not use the
term "blind spot", but you truly have one that I would suggest you may be
more willing to reflect on. You've turned a conversation about
international students being potentially deported into that regarding
student responsibility-- read the room. Those topics are not intersectional
and one and the same as you've tried to make it. I agree that students must
be willing to be responsible for their work but that's not the conversation
here. And as I mentioned students of color specifically, this leaves me to
wonder how do you/have you assisted students that you assumed were simply
not responsible enough to do their work, when they really needed additional
mentorship and support. You've communicated here an idea of work effort and
efficiency that is indeed rooted in racist ideas and principles.

In an effort to preserve myself and to continue to showcase the respect I
still have for you as an ATTW Fellow, it is best I no longer engage with
you on this topic. Everyone else, I hope we are able to continue to discuss
ways that we have ideas and principles that can harm our students in ways
we may not be aware of.

Y'all stay fabulous out there!!

Temptaous

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 8:10 AM Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>
wrote:

> I have never, throughout my career, had any problem
>  With students of color.  I believe that we have to
> ensure that all students learn to be accountable for
> their school work.  I had the same expectations
> for all students.
>
> E. Tebeaux
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:07 PM, Temptaous Mckoy <temptaous56 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Elizabeth
>
> Respectfully so, this response is dangerous and problematic. This is not a
> conversation on student responsibility. And I’m saddened that you are
> making this conversation to be so. Furthermore, these leaves me concerned
> about your interactions with students of color in general.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 9:13 PM Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> I don’t think we are responsive for the welfare and learning
>> outcomes of any students.  We can do our job as teachers,
>> but students also have to take responsibility for their
>> Learning and welfare.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2020, at 6:12 PM, Temptaous Mckoy <temptaous56 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Everyone!!
>> Cagle and Cana, thank you for speaking up here. I would like to mention,
>> I was a bit thrown off to see a colleague suggest they are not responsible
>> for the overall well being and educational outcomes for international
>> students. Elizabeth, would you mind speaking more to what you mean here? I
>> do not want to misunderstand your ideas.
>>
>> Temptaous
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Cana Itchuaqiyaq <croscana at isu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> This conversation is teetering on the edge of being on the level of some
>>> of the racist and xenophobic threads on the wpa-l.
>>>
>>> As Dr. Dragga notes, this memo is a great case study of technical
>>> communication’s effect on populations.
>>>
>>> Please do not make the professional spaces in our field unsafe for
>>> international scholars.
>>>
>>> In solidarity,
>>> Cana Uluak Itchuaqiyaq
>>> Tribal member, Noorvik Native Community
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 3:30 PM Cagle, Lauren E. <lauren.cagle at uky.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Joseph, I just want to be clear I understand you. Are you suggesting
>>>> that international students are gaming immigration status to the detriment
>>>> of US workers, and therefore the current ICE rule is acceptable?
>>>>
>>>> Cagle
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Lauren E. Cagle, PhD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Assistant Professor | Writing, Rhetoric, & Digital Studies, University
>>>> of Kentucky
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wrd.as.uky.edu/__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KExBvI9Csg$>
>>>>
>>>> Program Faculty | Environmental and Sustainability Studies, University
>>>> of Kentucky
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ens.as.uky.edu/about-faculty__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEyH3LniJQ$>
>>>>
>>>> First Vice-President | Association for Rhetoric of Science,
>>>> Technology, and Medicine
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.arstmonline.org/__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEzjBZiXDA$>
>>>>
>>>> Director & Co-Founder | Kentucky Climate Consortium
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.research.uky.edu/climate-consortium__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEzR1LVoow$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pronouns: she/her/hers
>>>>
>>>> University of Kentucky
>>>>
>>>> 1351 Patterson Office Tower
>>>>
>>>> lauren.cagle at uky.edu
>>>>
>>>> (859) 257-1115
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* ATTW-L <attw-l-bounces at attw.org> on behalf of Joseph Jeyaraj <
>>>> jeyarajjoseph at yahoo.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:51 PM
>>>> *To:* Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>; attw-l at attw.org <
>>>> attw-l at attw.org>; Kain, Donna <KAIND at ecu.edu>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students
>>>>
>>>> CAUTION: External Sender
>>>>
>>>> International students currently use the OPT as a transitional period
>>>> to get hired legally and then, while on an OPT, apply for the H-1B to
>>>> change immigrations status, I believe.
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>> On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 03:46:51 PM EDT, Kain, Donna <kaind at ecu.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully, if we have responsibility for any of our students'
>>>> educational outcomes, then we have responsibility for all our students'
>>>> educational outcomes. (Our accrediting agency seems to think we are
>>>> responsible.) As far as relying on international students to stay afloat,
>>>> that's above my pay grade. I'm concerned about the students who are here,
>>>> not why they're here.
>>>>
>>>> Harvard and MIT are suing:
>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/07/08/harvard-mit-international-students-ice/
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.washingtonpost.com*2Feducation*2F2020*2F07*2F08*2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice*2F&data=02*7C01*7Clauren.cagle*40uky.edu*7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69*7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae*7C0*7C1*7C637299211821234773&sdata=W4U0DJOI685ysLH9Asv9z3YVVp0PsA3wsPjRQ03qsHI*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEzT0M_6mQ$>
>>>>
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.washingtonpost.com*2Feducation*2F2020*2F07*2F08*2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice*2F&data=02*7C01*7Clauren.cagle*40uky.edu*7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69*7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae*7C0*7C1*7C637299211821244765&sdata=GgIYDSCS5lL1fS5OZS5OaP*2F6j0xtHGOGQIKndS*2FuFu8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEz_7vJ2Ig$>
>>>> Harvard, MIT sue to protect international students - The Washington Post
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.washingtonpost.com*2Feducation*2F2020*2F07*2F08*2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice*2F&data=02*7C01*7Clauren.cagle*40uky.edu*7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69*7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae*7C0*7C1*7C637299211821244765&sdata=GgIYDSCS5lL1fS5OZS5OaP*2F6j0xtHGOGQIKndS*2FuFu8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEz_7vJ2Ig$>
>>>> Harvard, pictured here, joined MIT in suing the Trump administration
>>>> over a rule barring international students from coming to the United States
>>>> to attend colleges offering only online classes.
>>>> www.washingtonpost.com
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.washingtonpost.com__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEwfQP-wjQ$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Donna Kain, Ph.D.
>>>> Associate Professor
>>>> Director of Undergraduate Studies
>>>> Department of English, East Carolina University
>>>> 252-737-2705
>>>> 2202 Bate Building
>>>> Mail Stop 555
>>>> kaind at ecu.edu
>>>> *Go English!*
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 8, 2020 2:24 PM
>>>> *To:* Kain, Donna <KAIND at ecu.edu>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students
>>>>
>>>> This email originated from outside ECU.
>>>> No we are not. They have to achieve on their own.  Accrediting agencies
>>>> require DE support services.  We have resident support services, but we are
>>>> not responsible for their welfare and educational outcomes.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that universities have relied too long in intl students.
>>>> With the coming student shortage,   Colleges will have to cope or close.
>>>> Providing DE programs for US  working adults—graduate and certificate—is
>>>> the way to go. That’s a deep market.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth Tebeaux
>>>> ATTW Fellow/
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 8, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Kain, Donna <KAIND at ecu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Those are possible explanations. However, as long as we invite students
>>>> to this country to study, we have a responsibility for their overall
>>>> welfare and educational outcomes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Donna Kain, Ph.D.
>>>> Associate Professor
>>>> Director of Undergraduate Studies
>>>> Department of English, East Carolina University
>>>> 252-737-2705
>>>> 2202 Bate Building
>>>> Mail Stop 555
>>>> kaind at ecu.edu
>>>> *Go English!*
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* ATTW-L <attw-l-bounces at attw.org> on behalf of Joseph Jeyaraj <
>>>> jeyarajjoseph at yahoo.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 8, 2020 11:30 AM
>>>> *To:* attw-l at attw.org <attw-l at attw.org>; Dragga, Sam <
>>>> sam.dragga at ttu.edu>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students
>>>>
>>>> This email originated from outside ECU.
>>>>
>>>> The ICE memo likely is in keeping with the administration's policy of
>>>> protecting American jobs.
>>>>
>>>> The top two contributing countries for international students are India
>>>> (from India the number currently, if I am right, may be close to 200,000)
>>>> and China (possibly higher than India's) and it is the understanding that
>>>> many of them post graduation move on to OPT and then H-1B.
>>>>
>>>> The H-1 B is meant to bring in overseas workers for filling in jobs
>>>> that cannot be filled by US nationals, but American workers have argued
>>>> that that is not the case.
>>>>
>>>> In addition, the Obama administration also allowed the H-4 (spousal
>>>> visa) to be used as a work visa (possibly in 2015) and currently there may
>>>> be around 127,000 or so who have entered the US job market as a result.
>>>>
>>>> The above is in addition to jobs outsourced. (If I am right, a few
>>>> years ago IBM's biggest workforce of possibly 120,000 or so may have been
>>>> India.)
>>>>
>>>> Because of Covid-19 and high unemployment levels, I think, the
>>>> administration has put a stop on processing all work visas (H-1B and and
>>>> other types as well I think, including the H-4).
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 02:54:08 PM EDT, Dragga, Sam <
>>>> sam.dragga at ttu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you are looking for a striking example of technical writing with a
>>>> direct impact on your classrooms, consider the memo released yesterday by
>>>> the US Department of Homeland Security (
>>>> https://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/bcm2007-01.pdf
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ice.gov*2Fdoclib*2Fsevis*2Fpdf*2Fbcm2007-01.pdf*26data*3D02*7C01*7Ckaind*40ecu.edu*7C0cecdb5772614dbbe0f508d8235413af*7C17143cbb385c4c45a36ac65b72e3eae8*7C1*7C1*7C637298191313207642*26sdata*3DUtHXM*2ByatVpQYi49SLyny7XgDxwDaCwwOL2seZhVkyo*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!U0PxocZt15Jl_jQL1-9Nll6uHarSbF7rkM3O8COdfpbKEhPcrYVZ1zVlrrBJhdhlPw*24&data=02*7C01*7Clauren.cagle*40uky.edu*7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69*7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae*7C0*7C1*7C637299211821254757&sdata=arlvM4cmbiOmfZXegNcrdK6zm*2FWPVTOcRFTATtmmiQs*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KwNVnqRv!Ucaybhl1NJrlmzly65YDIIM3o6h35-V6IrDfiozxH9WAN5VHb7otFqp5KEw0vu73tA$>
>>>> ).
>>>>
>>>> The memo explains to college administrators that their international
>>>> (nonimmigrant) students musttake either onsite courses or a mix of
>>>> onsite and online courses in the Fall 2020 semester to remain in the United
>>>> States.
>>>>
>>>> In addition to raising awareness of the extraordinary conditions for
>>>> international students, the memo offers the opportunity to discuss clarity
>>>> in writing (e.g., note the 33-word opening sentence in the 116-word opening
>>>> paragraph but also the headings and numbered or bulleted lists).
>>>>
>>>> And given the experience of the Spring 2020 semester and the ongoing
>>>> COVID-19 crisis, the memo raises ethical questions about putting the
>>>> following key piece of information in a 63-word sentence in the middle of a
>>>> 151-word paragraph on page 2 of a 3-page memo [italics mine]:
>>>>
>>>> *If a school changes its operational stance mid-semester, and as a
>>>> result a nonimmigrant student switches to only online classes,* or a
>>>> nonimmigrant student changes their course selections, and as a result, ends
>>>> up taking an entirely online course load, schools are reminded that
>>>> nonimmigrant students within the United States are not permitted to take a
>>>> full course of study through online classes.
>>>>
>>>> Sam
>>>>
>>>> Sam Dragga
>>>>
>>>> Professor Emeritus, Texas Tech University
>>>>
>>>> Editor,*Technical Communication*
>>>>
>>>> sam.dragga at ttu.edu
>>>>
>>>> 1-806-543-6099
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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