<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span id="gmail-docs-internal-guid-3f5481b6-7fff-ccd3-779e-7b055b3b3c5b" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Alegreya,serif;background-color:transparent;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Joseph</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Alegreya,serif;background-color:transparent;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">You do know that that is the law, right? That if international students wish to undertake optional practical training (OPT) that is the path they have to take? Sometimes it is granted, but not always. Still the majority of students return to their countries after training.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Alegreya,serif;background-color:transparent;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Do you mean to foreclose on the possibility of international students studying in the U.S. because a few might obtain OPT and thereafter go one to H1B visa status (which is allowed for only six years)? </span></p><br></span><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 5:29 PM Cagle, Lauren E. <<a href="mailto:lauren.cagle@uky.edu">lauren.cagle@uky.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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Hi all,</div>
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Joseph, I just want to be clear I understand you. Are you suggesting that international students are gaming immigration status to the detriment of US workers, and therefore the current ICE rule is acceptable?</div>
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Cagle<br>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Lauren E. Cagle, PhD</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Assistant Professor | <a href="https://wrd.as.uky.edu/" target="_blank">
Writing, Rhetoric, & Digital Studies, University of Kentucky</a></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Program Faculty | <a href="https://ens.as.uky.edu/about-faculty" target="_blank">
Environmental and Sustainability Studies, University of Kentucky</a></p>
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Association for Rhetoric of Science, Technology, and Medicine</a></p>
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Kentucky Climate Consortium</a><br>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Pronouns: she/her/hers</div>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">University of Kentucky</p>
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<div id="gmail-m_6794110377479717583divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> ATTW-L <<a href="mailto:attw-l-bounces@attw.org" target="_blank">attw-l-bounces@attw.org</a>> on behalf of Joseph Jeyaraj <<a href="mailto:jeyarajjoseph@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jeyarajjoseph@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <<a href="mailto:e-tebeaux@tamu.edu" target="_blank">e-tebeaux@tamu.edu</a>>; <a href="mailto:attw-l@attw.org" target="_blank">attw-l@attw.org</a> <<a href="mailto:attw-l@attw.org" target="_blank">attw-l@attw.org</a>>; Kain, Donna <<a href="mailto:KAIND@ecu.edu" target="_blank">KAIND@ecu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students</font>
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External Sender</span></div>
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<div>International students currently use the OPT as a transitional period to get hired legally and then, while on an OPT, apply for the H-1B to change immigrations status, I believe.
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Joseph<br>
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<div>On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 03:46:51 PM EDT, Kain, Donna <<a href="mailto:kaind@ecu.edu" target="_blank">kaind@ecu.edu</a>> wrote:
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<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Respectfully, if we have responsibility for any of our students' educational outcomes, then we have responsibility for all our students' educational outcomes. (Our accrediting agency seems
to think we are responsible.) As far as relying on international students to stay afloat, that's above my pay grade. I'm concerned about the students who are here, not why they're here.</div>
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<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Harvard and MIT are suing: <a rel="nofollow" href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Feducation%2F2020%2F07%2F08%2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C1%7C637299211821234773&sdata=W4U0DJOI685ysLH9Asv9z3YVVp0PsA3wsPjRQ03qsHI%3D&reserved=0" id="gmail-m_6794110377479717583x_yiv7654010855LPlnk452701" target="_blank">https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/07/08/harvard-mit-international-students-ice/</a></div>
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<a rel="nofollow" id="gmail-m_6794110377479717583x_yiv7654010855LPUrlAnchor739431" href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Feducation%2F2020%2F07%2F08%2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C1%7C637299211821244765&sdata=GgIYDSCS5lL1fS5OZS5OaP%2F6j0xtHGOGQIKndS%2FuFu8%3D&reserved=0" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">Harvard,
MIT sue to protect international students - The Washington Post</a></div>
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Harvard, pictured here, joined MIT in suing the Trump administration over a rule barring international students from coming to the United States to attend colleges offering only online classes.</div>
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<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com" target="_blank">www.washingtonpost.com</a></div>
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<div><font face="Arial">Donna Kain, Ph.D. </font>
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<div id="gmail-m_6794110377479717583x_yiv7654010855divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <<a href="mailto:e-tebeaux@tamu.edu" target="_blank">e-tebeaux@tamu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 8, 2020 2:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kain, Donna <<a href="mailto:KAIND@ecu.edu" target="_blank">KAIND@ecu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students</font>
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<div>No we are not. They have to achieve on their own. Accrediting agencies require DE support services. We have resident support services, but we are not responsible for their welfare and educational outcomes.
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<div>I believe that universities have relied too long in intl students. With the coming student shortage, Colleges will have to cope or close. Providing DE programs for US working adults—graduate and certificate—is the way to go. That’s a deep market.</div>
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<div>Elizabeth Tebeaux </div>
<div>ATTW Fellow/<br>
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On Jul 8, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Kain, Donna <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:KAIND@ecu.edu" target="_blank">KAIND@ecu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Those are possible explanations. However, as long as we invite students to this country to study, we have a responsibility for their overall welfare and educational outcomes. </div>
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<div><span style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Department of English, </span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">East Carolina
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<div><span style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">252-737-2705 </span><br>
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<div id="gmail-m_6794110377479717583x_yiv7654010855x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> ATTW-L <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:attw-l-bounces@attw.org" target="_blank">attw-l-bounces@attw.org</a>> on behalf of
Joseph Jeyaraj <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:jeyarajjoseph@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jeyarajjoseph@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 8, 2020 11:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:attw-l@attw.org" target="_blank">attw-l@attw.org</a> <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:attw-l@attw.org" target="_blank">attw-l@attw.org</a>>; Dragga, Sam <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:sam.dragga@ttu.edu" target="_blank">sam.dragga@ttu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students</font>
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The ICE memo likely is in keeping with the administration's policy of protecting American jobs.<br>
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The top two contributing countries for international students are India (from India the number currently, if I am right, may be close to 200,000) and China (possibly higher than India's) and it is the understanding that many of them post graduation move on
to OPT and then H-1B. <br>
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The H-1 B is meant to bring in overseas workers for filling in jobs that cannot be filled by US nationals, but American workers have argued that that is not the case. <br>
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In addition, the Obama administration also allowed the H-4 (spousal visa) to be used as a work visa (possibly in 2015) and currently there may be around 127,000 or so who have entered the US job market as a result.<br>
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The above is in addition to jobs outsourced. (If I am right, a few years ago IBM's biggest workforce of possibly 120,000 or so may have been India.)<br>
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Because of Covid-19 and high unemployment levels, I think, the administration has put a stop on processing all work visas (H-1B and and other types as well I think, including the H-4).<br>
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Joseph </div>
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<div>On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 02:54:08 PM EDT, Dragga, Sam <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:sam.dragga@ttu.edu" target="_blank">sam.dragga@ttu.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt">If you are looking for a striking example of technical writing with a direct impact on your classrooms, consider the memo released yesterday by the US Department of Homeland Security (<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ice.gov*2Fdoclib*2Fsevis*2Fpdf*2Fbcm2007-01.pdf%26data%3D02*7C01*7Ckaind*40ecu.edu*7C0cecdb5772614dbbe0f508d8235413af*7C17143cbb385c4c45a36ac65b72e3eae8*7C1*7C1*7C637298191313207642%26sdata%3DUtHXM*2ByatVpQYi49SLyny7XgDxwDaCwwOL2seZhVkyo*3D%26reserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!U0PxocZt15Jl_jQL1-9Nll6uHarSbF7rkM3O8COdfpbKEhPcrYVZ1zVlrrBJhdhlPw%24&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C1%7C637299211821254757&sdata=arlvM4cmbiOmfZXegNcrdK6zm%2FWPVTOcRFTATtmmiQs%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/bcm2007-01.pdf</a>).</span></p>
<p>The memo explains to college administrators that their international (nonimmigrant) students must<b><i></i></b>take either onsite courses or a mix of onsite and online courses in the Fall 2020 semester to remain in the United States.</p>
<p>In addition to raising awareness of the extraordinary conditions for international students, the memo offers the opportunity to discuss clarity in writing (e.g., note the 33-word opening sentence in the 116-word opening paragraph but also the headings and
numbered or bulleted lists). </p>
<p>And given the experience of the Spring 2020 semester and the ongoing COVID-19 crisis, the memo raises ethical questions about putting the following key piece of information in a 63-word sentence in the middle of a 151-word paragraph on page 2 of a 3-page
memo [italics mine]: </p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><i>If a school changes its operational stance mid-semester, and as a result a nonimmigrant student switches to only online classes,</i> or a nonimmigrant student changes their course selections, and as a result, ends up taking an
entirely online course load, schools are reminded that nonimmigrant students within the United States are not permitted to take a full course of study through online classes.</p>
<p>Sam<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:serif"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">Sam Dragga</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">Professor Emeritus, Texas Tech University</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">Editor,<i>Technical Communication</i></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif"><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:sam.dragga@ttu.edu" target="_blank">sam.dragga@ttu.edu</a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">1-806-543-6099</span></p>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="font-size:12.8px;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Fax"">Josie</span></p><p style="font-size:12.8px;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Verdana">________________________________________</span></p><p style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Fax"">Josephine Walwema, PhD</span></p><p style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Fax"">Associate Professor, Writing and Rhetoric </span></p><p style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Fax"">Oakland University </span></p><p style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Fax"">308 O'Dowd Hall, 586 Pioneer Drive</span></p><p style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Fax"">Rochester, MI 48309-4482</span></p><p style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Fax"">248-370-4136</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div>