[ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students

Fri Jul 10 00:25:48 UTC 2020

I just want to verbalize my support for all the international students and POC (those of who are a part of ATTW and all else as well) and say that YOU ARE WELCOME here. Collectively, as a nation and as academics, we are responsible for the well being of all our people.

_________________

Dr. April O'Brien
Assistant Professor
Technical Communication
Department of English
Sam Houston State University
She/her/hers
aprilobrien.net<http://aprilobrien.net>

On Jul 9, 2020, at 6:10 PM, Temptaous Mckoy <temptaous56 at gmail.com<mailto:temptaous56 at gmail.com>> wrote:

Hey Everyone!!
Cagle and Cana, thank you for speaking up here. I would like to mention, I was a bit thrown off to see a colleague suggest they are not responsible for the overall well being and educational outcomes for international students. Elizabeth, would you mind speaking more to what you mean here? I do not want to misunderstand your ideas.

Temptaous

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Cana Itchuaqiyaq <croscana at isu.edu<mailto:croscana at isu.edu>> wrote:
Hello,
This conversation is teetering on the edge of being on the level of some of the racist and xenophobic threads on the wpa-l.

As Dr. Dragga notes, this memo is a great case study of technical communication’s effect on populations.

Please do not make the professional spaces in our field unsafe for international scholars.

In solidarity,
Cana Uluak Itchuaqiyaq
Tribal member, Noorvik Native Community

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 3:30 PM Cagle, Lauren E. <lauren.cagle at uky.edu<mailto:lauren.cagle at uky.edu>> wrote:
Hi all,

Joseph, I just want to be clear I understand you. Are you suggesting that international students are gaming immigration status to the detriment of US workers, and therefore the current ICE rule is acceptable?

Cagle

----------------------------------------------
Lauren E. Cagle, PhD

Assistant Professor | Writing, Rhetoric, & Digital Studies, University of Kentucky<https://wrd.as.uky.edu/>
Program Faculty | Environmental and Sustainability Studies, University of Kentucky<https://ens.as.uky.edu/about-faculty>
First Vice-President | Association for Rhetoric of Science, Technology, and Medicine<http://www.arstmonline.org/>
Director & Co-Founder | Kentucky Climate Consortium<https://www.research.uky.edu/climate-consortium>

Pronouns: she/her/hers

University of Kentucky
1351 Patterson Office Tower
lauren.cagle at uky.edu<mailto:lauren.cagle at uky.edu>
(859) 257-1115

________________________________
From: ATTW-L <attw-l-bounces at attw.org<mailto:attw-l-bounces at attw.org>> on behalf of Joseph Jeyaraj <jeyarajjoseph at yahoo.com<mailto:jeyarajjoseph at yahoo.com>>
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:51 PM
To: Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu<mailto:e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>>; attw-l at attw.org<mailto:attw-l at attw.org> <attw-l at attw.org<mailto:attw-l at attw.org>>; Kain, Donna <KAIND at ecu.edu<mailto:KAIND at ecu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students

CAUTION: External Sender

International students currently use the OPT as a transitional period to get hired legally and then, while on an OPT, apply for the H-1B to change immigrations status, I believe.

Joseph
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 03:46:51 PM EDT, Kain, Donna <kaind at ecu.edu<mailto:kaind at ecu.edu>> wrote:

Respectfully, if we have responsibility for any of our students' educational outcomes, then we have responsibility for all our students' educational outcomes. (Our accrediting agency seems to think we are responsible.) As far as relying on international students to stay afloat, that's above my pay grade. I'm concerned about the students who are here, not why they're here.

Harvard and MIT are suing: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/07/08/harvard-mit-international-students-ice/<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Feducation%2F2020%2F07%2F08%2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C1%7C637299211821234773&sdata=W4U0DJOI685ysLH9Asv9z3YVVp0PsA3wsPjRQ03qsHI%3D&reserved=0>
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/RTUDXQVMYYI6VJB3X2PWJFFIPU.jpg&w=1440]<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Feducation%2F2020%2F07%2F08%2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C1%7C637299211821244765&sdata=GgIYDSCS5lL1fS5OZS5OaP%2F6j0xtHGOGQIKndS%2FuFu8%3D&reserved=0>

Harvard, MIT sue to protect international students - The Washington Post<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Feducation%2F2020%2F07%2F08%2Fharvard-mit-international-students-ice%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C1%7C637299211821244765&sdata=GgIYDSCS5lL1fS5OZS5OaP%2F6j0xtHGOGQIKndS%2FuFu8%3D&reserved=0>
Harvard, pictured here, joined MIT in suing the Trump administration over a rule barring international students from coming to the United States to attend colleges offering only online classes.
www.washingtonpost.com<http://www.washingtonpost.com/>

________________________________
Donna Kain, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Director of Undergraduate Studies
Department of English, East Carolina University
252-737-2705
2202 Bate Building
Mail Stop 555
kaind at ecu.edu<mailto:kaind at ecu.edu>
Go English!

________________________________
From: Tebeaux, Elizabeth D <e-tebeaux at tamu.edu<mailto:e-tebeaux at tamu.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 2:24 PM
To: Kain, Donna <KAIND at ecu.edu<mailto:KAIND at ecu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students

This email originated from outside ECU.

No we are not. They have to achieve on their own.  Accrediting agencies require DE support services.  We have resident support services, but we are not responsible for their welfare and educational outcomes.

I believe that universities have relied too long in intl students.  With the coming student shortage,   Colleges will have to cope or close.  Providing DE programs for US  working adults—graduate and certificate—is the way to go. That’s a deep market.

Elizabeth Tebeaux
ATTW Fellow/

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 8, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Kain, Donna <KAIND at ecu.edu<mailto:KAIND at ecu.edu>> wrote:

Those are possible explanations. However, as long as we invite students to this country to study, we have a responsibility for their overall welfare and educational outcomes.

________________________________
Donna Kain, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Director of Undergraduate Studies
Department of English, East Carolina University
252-737-2705
2202 Bate Building
Mail Stop 555
kaind at ecu.edu<mailto:kaind at ecu.edu>
Go English!

________________________________
From: ATTW-L <attw-l-bounces at attw.org<mailto:attw-l-bounces at attw.org>> on behalf of Joseph Jeyaraj <jeyarajjoseph at yahoo.com<mailto:jeyarajjoseph at yahoo.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 11:30 AM
To: attw-l at attw.org<mailto:attw-l at attw.org> <attw-l at attw.org<mailto:attw-l at attw.org>>; Dragga, Sam <sam.dragga at ttu.edu<mailto:sam.dragga at ttu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [ATTW-L] the ICE memo on international students

This email originated from outside ECU.

The ICE memo likely is in keeping with the administration's policy of protecting American jobs.

The top two contributing countries for international students are India (from India the number currently, if I am right, may be close to 200,000) and China (possibly higher than India's) and it is the understanding that many of them post graduation move on to OPT and then H-1B.

The H-1 B is meant to bring in overseas workers for filling in jobs that cannot be filled by US nationals, but American workers have argued that that is not the case.

In addition, the Obama administration also allowed the H-4 (spousal visa) to be used as a work visa (possibly in 2015) and currently there may be around 127,000 or so who have entered the US job market as a result.

The above is in addition to jobs outsourced. (If I am right, a few years ago IBM's biggest workforce of possibly 120,000 or so may have been India.)

Because of Covid-19 and high unemployment levels, I think, the administration has put a stop on processing all work visas (H-1B and and other types as well I think, including the H-4).

Joseph
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 02:54:08 PM EDT, Dragga, Sam <sam.dragga at ttu.edu<mailto:sam.dragga at ttu.edu>> wrote:

If you are looking for a striking example of technical writing with a direct impact on your classrooms, consider the memo released yesterday by the US Department of Homeland Security (https://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/bcm2007-01.pdf<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ice.gov*2Fdoclib*2Fsevis*2Fpdf*2Fbcm2007-01.pdf%26data%3D02*7C01*7Ckaind*40ecu.edu*7C0cecdb5772614dbbe0f508d8235413af*7C17143cbb385c4c45a36ac65b72e3eae8*7C1*7C1*7C637298191313207642%26sdata%3DUtHXM*2ByatVpQYi49SLyny7XgDxwDaCwwOL2seZhVkyo*3D%26reserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!U0PxocZt15Jl_jQL1-9Nll6uHarSbF7rkM3O8COdfpbKEhPcrYVZ1zVlrrBJhdhlPw%24&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C1%7C637299211821254757&sdata=arlvM4cmbiOmfZXegNcrdK6zm%2FWPVTOcRFTATtmmiQs%3D&reserved=0>).

The memo explains to college administrators that their international (nonimmigrant) students musttake either onsite courses or a mix of onsite and online courses in the Fall 2020 semester to remain in the United States.

In addition to raising awareness of the extraordinary conditions for international students, the memo offers the opportunity to discuss clarity in writing (e.g., note the 33-word opening sentence in the 116-word opening paragraph but also the headings and numbered or bulleted lists).

And given the experience of the Spring 2020 semester and the ongoing COVID-19 crisis, the memo raises ethical questions about putting the following key piece of information in a 63-word sentence in the middle of a 151-word paragraph on page 2 of a 3-page memo [italics mine]:

If a school changes its operational stance mid-semester, and as a result a nonimmigrant student switches to only online classes, or a nonimmigrant student changes their course selections, and as a result, ends up taking an entirely online course load, schools are reminded that nonimmigrant students within the United States are not permitted to take a full course of study through online classes.

Sam

Sam Dragga
Professor Emeritus, Texas Tech University
Editor,Technical Communication
sam.dragga at ttu.edu<mailto:sam.dragga at ttu.edu>
1-806-543-6099

_______________________________________________
ATTW-L mailing list
ATTW-L at attw.org<mailto:ATTW-L at attw.org>
http://attw.org/mailman/listinfo/attw-l_attw.org<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp*3A*2F*2Fattw.org*2Fmailman*2Flistinfo*2Fattw-l_attw.org%26data%3D02*7C01*7Ckaind*40ecu.edu*7C0cecdb5772614dbbe0f508d8235413af*7C17143cbb385c4c45a36ac65b72e3eae8*7C1*7C1*7C637298191313217635%26sdata%3DsyzgQVmMVI7piupMrELNa5s7Yb1NK5iYXi*2FtoOHOSEU*3D%26reserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KwNVnqRv!U0PxocZt15Jl_jQL1-9Nll6uHarSbF7rkM3O8COdfpbKEhPcrYVZ1zVlrrBGrqdclQ%24&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C0%7C637299211821254757&sdata=Gn7gENHskeN5DQa01rtchIUgmXOW43UTMJHL1bWIeuY%3D&reserved=0>
_______________________________________________
ATTW-L mailing list
ATTW-L at attw.org<mailto:ATTW-L at attw.org>
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://attw.org/mailman/listinfo/attw-l_attw.org__;!!KwNVnqRv!U0PxocZt15Jl_jQL1-9Nll6uHarSbF7rkM3O8COdfpbKEhPcrYVZ1zVlrrC1m0YDhw$<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Fattw.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fattw-l_attw.org__%3B!!KwNVnqRv!U0PxocZt15Jl_jQL1-9Nll6uHarSbF7rkM3O8COdfpbKEhPcrYVZ1zVlrrC1m0YDhw%24&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C0%7C637299211821264752&sdata=FeSyr2kzEe5oy3qcMy9RE3vCNlchEBhxHGG2oC9y0Q0%3D&reserved=0>
_______________________________________________
ATTW-L mailing list
ATTW-L at attw.org<mailto:ATTW-L at attw.org>
http://attw.org/mailman/listinfo/attw-l_attw.org<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fattw.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fattw-l_attw.org&data=02%7C01%7Clauren.cagle%40uky.edu%7C47ffbd4dfe41478f9c9508d82441af69%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C1%7C637299211821274746&sdata=ua3kZxk6jYz4CGQTmakAGdtm4W1ZK0g0mSYLwshpz%2FQ%3D&reserved=0>
_______________________________________________
ATTW-L mailing list
ATTW-L at attw.org<mailto:ATTW-L at attw.org>
http://attw.org/mailman/listinfo/attw-l_attw.org
_______________________________________________
ATTW-L mailing list
ATTW-L at attw.org<mailto:ATTW-L at attw.org>
http://attw.org/mailman/listinfo/attw-l_attw.org
_______________________________________________
ATTW-L mailing list
ATTW-L at attw.org<mailto:ATTW-L at attw.org>
http://attw.org/mailman/listinfo/attw-l_attw.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://attw.org/pipermail/attw-l_attw.org/attachments/20200710/f16f9694/attachment-0002.htm>